Akilah, Aldair, Shaakira, Tanasia, Amiyah -- use this space to begin your discussion of Divergent. You are responsible for reading the first 10 pages, asking a good Level 4 question, and answering it in CCEJ. You may also add on (new evidence) or disagree with another group member's post.
Based on the first couple of pages of the book what do you think is the overall goal for this Utopia/Dystopia ?
ReplyDeleteBased on the text "Brave New World", I believe that the Utopia/Dystopia's overall goal is to provide pleasure for it's people. They are so focused on finding pleasure that nothing else matters. People are having sex at any age in this book and it becomes natural to them. In the text it states ",We had elementary sex for the first forty minutes.."(27). Kids are having sex at 2 years old and up , it becomes natural for kids and adults to have sex all the time because the Utopia is so focused on pleasure. It becomes weird to the reader that there's 2 year olds having sex, but based on textual context that's the message we get.
Based on the book "Brave New World", I believe that the Utopia/Dystopia's overall goal is that they want everyone to be the same person and not for them to be their own person. They want everyone to me exactly the same and not one person should be different. This book follow the characteristics of a dystopian of citizens conform to uniform expectation. Individuality and dissent are bad because they don't get the chance to be their selves. In the text is state, " sixteen thousand and twelve; in one hundred and eighty-nine batches of identicals" (8). The government want everyone to be the same and they don't want anyone to be their own person, in this society being different is not a good thing.
DeleteSo in the beginning of the second chapter , we discover that there's no way for the people of this Utopia/Dystopia to reproduce , there are test-tube babies , do you think this is a positive or negative thing for the community?
ReplyDeleteBased on the text , the community is focused on pleasure and everyone is on birth control because they want everyone to be pleased, but they also want everyone to be the same and think the same, do the same things and all. By having test-tube babies makes this a dystopia and it's good for society because it keeps order and if someone dies they'll just have another baby that looks like that person , acts like that person etc. ready to replace them. In the text it states", eggs, which it contained were inspected for abnormalities.. warm bouillon containing free swimming spermatoa", Thus concluding and proving the fact that test-tube babies may seem "great" at the time because the only goal is to please the people, but in actuality is taking away the human characteristics that make humans happy in a way. Reproducing your own offspring is a thing of nature that the people of this world will never experience due to test-tube babies.
Do you think the field trip/tour is another way to keep the kids/people brainwashed ?
ReplyDeletePersonally , I do believe that the tour is a scam to brainwash the children and people .It makes them aware of what's going on in their society, but it only tells them the "good" and what they should do. In the text it states "",the sultry darkness into which students followed him was visible and crimson, like the darkness of closed eyes on a summer's afternoon"(11). The text apparently says that the focus of the group was basically going into a darkness meaning that something's that the person was telling the children was truth , yet had another meaning or there was some darkness behind , which shows why I think the tours were a scam to scare kids into thinking the dystopia they lived in was the only way of life and any other way of life was either scary or wrong.
Do you think this society have freewill?
ReplyDeleteI don't think they have the right to their freewill because they don't really have a say in anything they do, the government is brainwashing them to have sex at 2 and 3 years old. They have to control over their person the society is based on pleasure and everyone have to be put one birth control (women). The goal of this society is for everyone to be the same and not to have kids and it just based on pleasure and for everyone to be alike. It states " so many individuals, of such and such quality" (10). They want to be exactly alike because if something happens to one person then they wont be really sad because they have someone else that act exactly alike the person that they miss.
I agree with that the society does not have free will . At a very young age the people of the society are trained to not want freewill or learn how to venture out from the world they know . At a young age little infant babies are taught to hate book and flowers. In the text it states, "They'll grow up with what the psychologists used to call an instinctive hatred of books and flowers" (22).If the infants are trained to hate books they will never be able to read and know what a society outside of theirs would be like . Also if they are scared of flowers they will hate nature and they would not want to venture out into another world and see exactly how another world is . This prevents people from having freewill because they are trained from babies to hate certain things and to not want to explore the world and learn whats outside of their community . If they don't have any idea what's outside their community they will have no free will to explore other things.
DeleteI agree that the society does not have free will people are not allowed to be educated. In the novel, the government prevent people from learning and reading books because they fear that someone may rebel. The government teach people when they are babies to hate such things like books and flowers by presenting these items in front of them and doing things to make them scared. The director states, "they'll grow up with... hatred of books and flowers" (22). They want to grow hating books so they'll never consider picking up one and reading. Therefore in the text, that is why the government make loud noises of sirens and alarms, so as babies, they'll be scared. The government does not want people to know about anything else except the things the things they teach. Also he don't want people to explore the outside world of nature because it teach one about something which can bring problems to the society.
DeleteI would like to respectfully disagree. I do think that the people of the society have free will , just because they are being taught to hate education and nature doesn't mean that they can't learn to explore it as adults. In the text it states", They'll grow up with.. hatred of books and flowers"(22). Although they are taught to hate these things it never says that they will be punished if they learn these things. It never says that they will be punished for exploring these things. The society is only "making" them hate it for that stint of time.
DeleteAkilah -- great job doing all three posts this week. 44/45
ReplyDeleteAmiyah -- your posts are good level 4 questions. You do a great job of connecting your questions and responses to the themes of this unit. Make sure you post three times a week, though, for full credit. 30/45
Who do you think the director and scientist teach babies to be scared of books at a young a age ?
ReplyDeleteI think the director and scientist teach babies to be scared of books because they want them to have hatred for books. They would have babies crawl towards the book, and once they come in contact with, they'll have a loud alarm go off and make the babies suffer from an electric shock. This is to make them terribly scared of books so they can grow up not wanting to touch or like books. The Director states, "they'll grow up with... hatred of books... they'll be safe from books and botany all their lives" (22). The Director want them to have hatred for books because he fears that books would brainwash students. He feels like if they read books and find out other things, the students might try to rebel against their rules and expectations. The Director wants to prevent this from happening because if the students begin to rebel, things would get out of control. Therefore he frightens students when they are babies of books because he want to prevent them from using and reading them.
what does the constant need for sex show about the society value?
ReplyDeleteThe constant need for sex show the society values pleasure. The society believes in having sex but not reproducing children from intercourse. Child birth is viewed as nasty and a forbidden act. In the book a brave new world children are birthed threw test tubes. By using one sperm and one egg the director makes 90 of the same people . By using this process this ensures that people don't have a family and are not linked to each other. This shows that children can have sex at a very young age and is enjoying something that we don't view as appropriate for young children.This society they allow children as young as 3 or 4 years old to have sex. In the text it states, "Pilkington ,at mombasa,had produced individuals who were sexually mature at four and full grown at six and a half "(15). In this society people believe that little toddler kids are grown enough to have sex . Sex is the main focus of the society and they want the pleasure and none of the consequences that come with sex such as pregnancy because only pleasure matters.
I would like to agree with A'neyah , the constant need for sex shows that in the society not only the constant need for pleasure , but the lack of need for everything else. This means that education, jobs or anything that doesn't cause pleasure toward them is not a priority as it would be in our society. In the text it states", We had elementary sex for the first forty minutes",(27). The author expresses how the children's first classes are elementary sex and things that involves pleasure rather than a priority which would be basic learning skills and things that we stress over in real life. This is only one of many example of how pleasure is put before the priorities of any human being in this dystopia.
DeleteWhy are the people of the dystopia trying to avoid outside contact of the people they control?
ReplyDeleteThe people of the dystopia are trying to avoid outside contact with the people living in the dystopia because if they see something they aren't ordinarily used to they will feel that they are responsible , thus causing stress and other issues a Utopia tries to avoid. In the text it states,".. with all the diseases and endless isolating pain, what with the uncertainties and the poverty- they were forced to feel strongly"(41) The person who is giving the tour tells of how the people can not interact with the outside world because they will encounter the harsh wonders of the world which will not bring them pleasure and will cause harm to them . The people will start to feel responsible and place blame on themselves , therefore the leave the lab-babies and adults separated from the real world and in a world of pleasure.
What is a motif that is presented in "Brave New World" ?
ReplyDeleteA motif that is presented in "Brave New World" is sex. Sex is brought up multiple times through out the text because in this society everyone believes in having a sex. People are created by having a sperm cell stimulate an egg through bottles and from there, multiple people are created. Because of this everyone ends up being identical because the government don't believe in individuality. In the novel, the government brainwash young kids at age five and six, and even younger to have sex with one another. The author states, "individuals [are] sexually mature at four and full grown at six and a half "(15). This shows how the government approves of sex for all ages, which is why its accepted by all people living in this world. Sex is a thing that everyone worries about having since its a form of pleasure. Also with having sex with someone, that person that have to worry about getting pregnant since its not believed in this society.
I would like to agree with Shaakirah that , that is a very powerful and strong motif, but another important motif in this novel is "Fear" because the scientists or whoever is in charge wants to make sure that the people and the kids of the dystopia are in fear of the outside world. Which is why they show them scary flowers and books , so that they can fear what'll happen if they decide to further their education on the outside world or leave . In the text it states", [the children] had an instinctive hatred of books and flowers...still yelling , the babies were loaded on to their dumb-waiters and wheeled out"(22). The children and people are to be kept ignorant to the outside world , but more of a fear and an ignorance , so that they can be kept where they are pleasure , which is the dystopian society.
DeleteAnother motif of "Brave New World " is pleasure. In the society that they live in they value pleasure. They enjoy having sex with non of the consequences that stem from it like pregnancy . They enjoy not having to deal with anything that comes from sex but the pleasure that stems from it. The director believes that having the ability to be able to reproduce is something that's very nasty. In the text it states, "For you must remember that in those days of gross viviparous reproduction , children were always brought up by their parents and not in state conditioning centers " (24). Having sex is something you receive pleasure from and the society only feels the need to receive that pleasure . Society only cares about what good comes from situations and not the care or need for anything else but pleasure.
DeleteAldair
ReplyDeleteDoes this society fit the archetype of a dystopian society ?
This society does for the archetype of a dystopian society. In this society, information, independent thought, and freedom are restricted. In chapter two, the director takes the children into a room. On the floor are sets of books & roses. Babies are brought in to interact with both the books and roses. As they do so, they are electrically shocked. This shows how independent thought & freedom are restricted. The director shocks the babies so that they may grow up to hate knowledge and nature so that they will just want to work. This restricts their freedom & independent thought.
This society fits the archetype of a dystopian society because individuality and dissent are bad. In this society, the Director believes in everyone being the same where no one is better than someone else or look better. At the hatchery where babies are created, there are dozen of identical eggs that are produced. The text states, sixteen thousand and twelve; in one hundred and eighty-nine batches of identicals" (8). This shows how the governments believes in everyone being the same since he creates identical eggs. This prevents anyone from looking different from someone else and help prevents individuality. The governments believes that being different is wrong and is not excepted in this society.
DeleteThis society does fit the archetype of a dystopian society, The people are kept in a single area and can not go out into the real world to explore or learn. They are taught to fear nature and education because the directors fear that they will "branch out" and explore new wonders of the world. Also there is that constant sense of surveillance . In the text the characters are deprived from education and are kept from "knowing" things in order to "protect" them, but its really to protect the society's leader. In the text it states ", We don't need human intelligence. Didn't need and didn't get it .."(15). The people of the society are focused on keeping the people illiterate about the world and fail to educate them that they don't even see that as a priority anymore. The people are deprived the will to freely think and are deprived the will to freely explore.
DeleteAldair:
ReplyDeleteIs this society immoral ?
I don't think that the society is immoral. The society's morals are just confused. The text says that children "who were sexually mature at four". (15). In the book, everyone values sex and pleasure, they even imprint on their children at an early age. Since this is what they value, it isn't immoral. Although it may seem wrong to us, everything that they do is morally accepted because it is their belief.
I disagree because I think this society is very immoral. In this society, everyone values having sex, including young children who are sexually mature at the age of six. This is very abnormal because the society we live in most people discourage sex. Sex is not really excepted until a person is married or old enough to engage themselves in such activity. This society also values ignorance over education which is very immoral. The Director states," they'll grow up with... hatred of books... they'll be safe from books... all their lives" (22). This shows how the government prefers people to not learn about different things from the outside. The government values the people having sexual intercourse with one another over them learning about different things. Therefore, this shows how their society is very immoral compared to ours.
DeleteI dont think this society is immoral . This society is not immoral because this is their natural way of living and the things they do is immoral to us because this is not how our society is set up. In our society we hide sex while in their society they broadcast it and they value it and they think its okay."Pilkington ,at mombasa,had produced individuals who were sexually mature at four and full grown at six and a half "(15).Due to the fact sex is a common thing it is not immoral because it is common in their society , they would say that child birth is immoral because they don't believe in it because they think it's nasty .
DeleteI want to respectfully disagree because I do think the society is immoral , but they are oblivious to the fact that they are being immoral. They are immoral to our society because we do not have these customs , we do not value sex as much as the people in this book does. There is a smaller percentage in our society that values sex, more people value education or money. In the text, the people never really educate their students. Instead they want them to fear education. It states", Mombasa, had produced individuals who were sexually mature at age 4 and fully grown at age six and a half... But were socially useless."(15).This shows that because the teachers are teaching the students to values sex over anything else they are socially impaired, meaning they will not have any real connects socially to anyone else and they must live the rest of their life this way. The students and the people will not be able to connect to anything other than sex. Unlike in our society the people are pushed to value education and money over anything and children are taught that "You can wait for sex" , or that "Boys will always be there".. Therefore the constant acts of sex are immoral in our society to us, but not in their society.
DeleteMy third blog post is in period's 5 group because I responded to one of Mirandah's questions.
ReplyDeleteMy first two blogs are under P.5 BNW.
ReplyDeleteHow does people in this society feel about marriage and sex vs how does John feel ?
ReplyDeleteIn this society, the people do not believe in marriage. The reason they don't believe in marriage because that comes with commitment and being faithful to one person. People believe in having sex with multiple people and not just one person. In the novel, Lenina begins to catch feelings for John and tries showing it but isn't sure if he like her back. Finally he decided to let her know and she tries to have sex with him. However, he declines it because he believes in marriage and love. As Lenina was trying to make out with John, he shouted "whore! Impudent whore!" (194). This shows that he don't believe in just having sex with anyone because he not from Lenina's society. If it was another man, he would have accepted her trying to have sex, but John is not use to such thing. Since he reads a lot of Shakespeare's books, he don't believe in having sex until marriage etc.
I would like to agree with Shaakirah , The people of the society only want quick pleasure. They know nothing of commitment or loyalty to their spouse or mate. The society has made it to where having quick pleasure is considered "alright", then one is supposed to move on to the next person. John believes in sex after marriage. He knows it should be sacred In text it states", he believes marriage as love...(194). This means that other than John disobeying the law to learn outside material or have his own opinion he's educating himself on the rights of a real society like ours and not the dystopia he lives in.
Deleteother 2 posts are in the second brave new world groups blogs.
ReplyDelete