Dominic, Veronica, Daija, Tyron -- use this space to begin your discussion of Divergent. You are responsible for reading the first 10 pages, asking a good Level 4 question, and answering it in CCEJ. You may also add on (new evidence) or disagree with another group member's post.
How is Winston Smith (possibly O'Brien) different from the other people
ReplyDeleteWinsten Smith is different from the other people in the Dystopia because he knows that how their world works and operates is immoral. People shouldn’t be monitored by the police and having their thoughts analyzed. Winsten knows that “War is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. Ignorance is Strength” is not at all true. It is the exact opposite. Winsten wrote in his diary “theyll shoot me i dont care…down with big brother”(19). This shows that Winsten (slightly unknowingly) is willing to overthrow the Party, “Big Brother”, and the Government knowing that he might die while doing so. He knows this is not how people should be living. Unlike the other people in his town, living there like everything is fine and normal, Winsten is actually planning to stop “Big Brother” to put an end to the immoral ways of Dystopia.
I semi agree with Daija. Yes, Winston does see the world differently but Winston is not O'Brien. O'Brien is anonymous. Nobody really knows who he is. You can infer that O'Brien is a inner party member. But Winston not only sees the world for what it is, but he knows it is wrong. Winston knows a world should not be operated in the way it is now. He realizes that people should have freedom to think and write as they choose to. Winston hates the world he lives in and he blames it all on Big Brother, who you can assume is the ruler of Oceania. At this point of the book Winston is talking about how it makes no difference if he thinks it or says it, he will still be caught by the thought police. It says, "Whether he wrote DOWN WITH BIG BROTHERS, or whether he refrained from writing it, made no difference" (19). Winston knows the structure of the world. Whatever happens at any time it will be seen, no one is safe to show any freedom. Winston is different from everyone else, he see the world for the worst, which that's what it is. Therefore, I agree with Daija but I also disagree with Winston being O'Brien.
DeleteIn the book so far, What happens when you get caught by thought police?
ReplyDeleteIn the book, If a person gets caught by thought police they will kill you. Not only would they kill you, they would make sure you never existed. They removed you name from everything you ever did within your lifespan. At this point of the book Winston is talking about "Big Brother" and how he wants to take them down. It says, "no report of the arrest. People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten" (19). When the government does all of that they basically make sure that you are not remembered. Since you disappeared, causes the thought police to get you. Because they got you, they will have to make sure you never existed. Therefore, when you violate a thought crime they will basically kill you.
How is Oceania similar to the world of Minority Report?
ReplyDeleteOceania is similar to that of Minority Report because both give people harsh, strict consequences for crimes. Minority Report arrest people for committing future crimes while Oceania kills people and deletes all records and information to make it seem as if you never existed. Orwell described what happened when people were caught by the Thought Police and how the “Party” or “Big Brother” went about doing it. “People simple disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word”(19). When people were caught by the thought police, they seemed to have disappeared off of the face of the earth in the night. They were never alive. All information of them and everything they ever did was deleted and forgotten. Both Minority Report and Oceania limit the people’s free will because they have been given a lifelong consequence because an action or crime that has not yet (or will not) be committed. They aren’t given a second chance or less harsh consequences. After one future or thought crimes, their lives are over for good.
What is abnormally wrong with Mrs. Parsons children?
ReplyDeleteThe thing that is abnormally wrong with Mrs. Parsons is that they wanted to see the hanging of some Eurasian prisoners who were accused of war crimes. An average child would be begging to go to and amusement park or the candy store not to see people die. This dystopian society corrupted the children to be accustomed to seeing death and pointing out traders. In this portion of this book, Winston is helping Mrs. Parson fix her sink when her savaged children barge in to beg her to go see the hanging after accusing Winston of being a Thought Criminal. It says, "Why can't we go see the hanging?...Want to see the hanging! Want to see the hanging!" (23). These children are savages and weird. Children should not wan to see people die. Since they live in a society where they prosecute people who think criminally, causes people in their sociey to have a twisted mindset. Because people have a twisted mindset, causes them to think seeing people die is normal. Since seeing people die is normal, causes them to raise children who think seeing people die is normal. Therefore, the thing that is abnormally wrong with the child of Mrs. Parson is that they want to see the hanging of Eurasian prisoners being accused of war crimes.
how is winston different from the others?
ReplyDeletein oceania the people tend to get in trouble for thoughtcrime. this crime is all about thinking. people are "vaporized" for these thoughts which mean they disappear from everything. a well hated guy named Emmanuel Goldstein is a perfect example of someone who just disappeared . he got in trouble for wanting change and freedom. he was sentenced to death but escaped and disappeared. Winston strongly agrees with Goldstein but is not sure due to his lack of remembering and the way his thoughts are set up. this is seen when he says ," the rumors of vast underground conspiracies were true after all -perhaps the brotherhood really exited!" ( 17). Winston support Goldstein despite the way everyone else is. he may write he is "down with big brother" and say he is but he doesnt fully believe it. Deep down winston wants a change. he wants his freedom .
why does winston write in the diary ?
ReplyDeleteWinston writes in hope of the future or whomever to read it and make a difference. it is banded to have certain thoughts so he writes his thoughts out. this is illegal just as thinking is. he says while writing, " for whom, it suddenly occured to him to wonder ,was he writing this diary ? for the future, for the unborn"(7). winston doesnt know who he is writing to . he is just writing in hope of someone to read it and make the change. he doesnt want people to continuously live this way. he knows thing can be different and will be one day.
why is it so hard for him to remember things? Does he have some type of disease or is it something with the government?
ReplyDeleteWhat was the point of Marriage in Oceania?
ReplyDeletePeople only got married so that they can have children, not because they truly loved their partner and wanted to spend the rest of their life with them. The Party only wanted children because it could help support them and punish the people that commit crimes in Oceania since children seem to very helpful with that. Marriages had to be approved by members of the party and if the couple was physically attracted to each other, then they wouldn’t be allowed to marry. The party also wants sex to be thought of as disgusting and only used to conceive a child to benefit The Party. Winsten is married but is separated from his wife, Katherine. Orwell states, “They must, she said, produce a child if they could. So the performance continued to happen, once a week quite regularly, whenever it was not impossible. She used to even remind him of it in the morning, as something which had to be done that evening and which must not be forgotten. She had two names for it. One was “making a baby”, and the other was “our duty to the Party”(67). Married couples treated sex as a job. The main concern was to have baby and not take any pleasure from sex.
What is the party trying to convince the people of Oceania?
ReplyDeleteThe Party is trying to convince the people of Oceania that how their world is better than how it used to be. They want their people to believe that the way they are living now is normal, moral and is a huge improvement from how it used to be. The Party claimed, or course, to have liberated the proles from bondage. Before the Revolution they had been hideously oppressed by the capitalist, they had…filled up the horizon of their minds”(71). The Party created a false story of the past where people, mostly the proles, were mistreated. Women and children were forced to work. The Party thought of proles as inferior and should be treated the same as animals. All the proles had to do was continue working and give birth to more children to support the party. Their existence overall was not important. The Party made up the fake story so they people would subject to the way their life is now and would abide by the new way of life and rules. The people have been successfully convinced that the “new” Oceania has far improved from the past, although it has been the same or even worse in the present day.
Why do you think Winston writes in his diary?
ReplyDeleteI think Winston writes in his diary because he does not want to think of the things he thinks of so he will not get caught by the though police. When Winston first started writing in the diary he was terrified that the thought police would find it and arrest him or make him disappear. In this portion of the book Winston is talking about a women named Katherine and how he needed to write down the rest of her story. It says, "But the rest of the story had got to be written down. He wrote" (68). Winston writes down the things he thinks so it will be a lesser chance the thought police will catch him, I also think Winston writes things down because its like a sense of freedom for him. Because the thought police restricts you from having any freedom, caused Winston to be sneaky and write his thoughts in his diary. Since Winston is sneaky and writes his thoughts in his diary, causes him to feel more free and allows his conscious to be clear. Therefore, I think Winston writes in the diary because he wants to write his thoughts down and he does not want to get caught by the thought police.
Why do you think people do not try to overthrow the government?
ReplyDeleteI think people do not try to overthrow the government because the thought police was so powerful that even if a group would try to come together, the thought police will catch on and make them disappear. In this portion of the book Winston is talking about how the Party can never be overthrown because they are so strong that they will make anybody who tries disappear. It says, "Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers that twos and threes" (69). Winston was basically saying that the Brotherhood would never allow a large sum of people overthrow the government because the society will not function without the Party and Brotherhood in complete control. Because the Party had so much power in this society, caused people to be scared to go against them. Since people were scared to go against them, caused Winston to hate the Brotherhood even more because everyone was scared to come forward. Therefore, I think people did not decide to over throw the Brotherhood because they were scared that the Party would make them disappear.
What is similar between Winston's society and the society in Mrs. Parsons diary?
ReplyDeleteThe similarity of Mrs. Parsons diary and Winston's society is that they are both owned by a higher power. In Winston's society the Brotherhood and Party has complete control over everything. The way people eat, exercise, and even work. At this point of the book, Winston is reading and excerpt from Mrs. Parsons diary and she is talking about this higher power that controls everything; everything form a persons home to money to freedom. It states, "They owned all the land, all the houses, all the factories, and all the money. If anyone disobeyed them they could throw them into prison, or they could take his job away and starve him to death" (73). In comparison of these two societies Winston's got rid of people who were disobeying the rules of the Part, and Mrs, Parsons society they took everything and at the end they die. Because the Party has so much power, allows them to take anything and everything away from a person who disobeys them. Since they can take everything and anything away from people who disobey them, allows them to dictate what people do, restricting them of their freedom rights. Therefore, the similarity that is between Winston's society and Mrs. Parsons society is that they both have a higher power in control of everyone.
Why did Winsten talk to the old man in the bar?
ReplyDeleteWinsten talked to the old man because he wanted to question him to figure out whether life was better or worse before it was ruled by Big Brother or The Party. Winsten wants to find the truth and not the lies the government is trying to convince them of about the past. Winsten sees an old man walking into a bar and infers that he was a grown man before Oceania was ruled by Big Brother and The Party. Winsten buys him a beer and asks, “Do you feel that you have more freedom now than you had in those days? Are you treated more like a human being?”(91). Winsten is extremely curious to find out if people lived better and had more freedom then they do now. He isn’t convinced by what the government is trying to persuade him and intends on figuring out the truth. Sadly the old man didn’t answer his question about Oceania being better or worse today compared to before the war. He only told Winsten unnecessary stories and details that most likely won’t be of any use.
Why is Julia attracted to Winsten?
ReplyDeleteJulia is attracted to Winsten because she knows that he’s not like the other people of Oceania who agree with the Party, way of life and think that everything now is in life is better and perfectly normal. She also knew that he didn’t agree with the Party. When Winsten and Julia were at the clearing, they began to speak to each other. WInsten asked her why was she attracted to a guy like him and she responded, “I’m good at spotting people who don’t belong. As soon as I saw you I knew you were against them”(122). Julia was aware that Winsten is different and stands out from other people because he doesn’t condone with the Party and what they are forcing people to believe and how to live. She is also against the Party and seems to be attracted to anyone who feels the same way or thinks the same way she does.
What did Winsten confess to Julia?
ReplyDeleteHe confessed that he regretted not killing his wife, Kathaine. He was speaking to Julia about his wife Katherine. Winsten and Katherine went on a hike together along with many other people. They mistakenly made a wrong turn and got lost. Ending up on the edge of the mountain with a ten to twenty meter drop, Kathaine was afraid and started to turn back. She also wanted to turn back because she was far away from the other hikers Winsten noticed that they weren’t under surveillance, and if possible, very little. Julia asked Winsten does he regret not shoving her over the ledge, he says, “Yes. On the whole I’m sorry I didn’t”(135). Winsten seems to completely regret not killing his wife. Katharine was dedicated to the party although she hated it. Most of her priorities or responsibilities were called, “our duty to the Party”. Winsten only enjoyed her company for sex and due to Winsten not agreeing with the party and desiring throwing the government and Big Brother over, he possibly couldn’t stand to be with her. Katharine’s existence didn’t matter (possibly never did) matter to Winsten any longer.
What assumption did Winsten make that was soon true?
ReplyDeleteWinsten assumed that his friend Syme was going to be vaporized. Syme works for the part of the government that creates the newspeak language and the dictionaries that are issued. While Winsten and Syme were having lunch in the cafeteria and Syme was speaking about the new words that are going to be created and put into the dictionary. Winsten thought, “one of these days, thought Winsten with sudden deep conviction, Syme will be vaporized. He is too intelligent. He sees too clearly and speaks to plainly. The Party does not like such people. One day he will disappear”(53). Winsten believes that Syme will be vaporized and deleted from existence because he is too smart, he’s honest and straightforward and he is very aware and cautious of his surroundings. Later, Winsten learns that Syme has been vaporized. Winsten states, “But Syme was not only dead, he was abolished, an unperson”(157). Syme has been removed from existence and now it is as if he had never been born. Winsten made a correct assumption about Syme disappearing.
Winsten assumes that the proles will over throw the Party. he believes that in order to stop them it would have to be them because it is so many of them. the proles make up 85% of the population in Oceania. Winsten says ," Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflection of the voice; at the most, an occasional whispered word" (69). winsten is basically saying it would be easy for the proles to over throw the Party. they dont have to do much because of their size and later in the text winsten along with julia forms a group to rebel
DeleteAn-Nisa Jones
What do you think this means, "We shall meet in a place where there is not darkness"? How does it relate to Winston?
ReplyDeleteI think this is a symbol of Winston's connection with O'Brien. Whenever O'Brien is contacting him he always saying this saying. It is repeated throughout the story. I think Winston thinks this place where there is no darkness is a place in the future. A place where he can escape the thought police. Winston definitely does not trust O'Brien because he secretly thinks he is a member of a party member but he is hoping this place helps him escape the thought police. It says, "The place where there is no darkness was the imagined future, which one would never see, by which foreknowledge, one could mystically share in" (103). Winston thinks the place is paradise and a better place than the one now but in reality it is like prison. Winston is trusting this place to lead to a promising future but it is not. Therefore, the place where no darkness is a symbol to Winston's connection with O'Brien to the future.